Plugged windows

[MSX]

Some customers opted to blank out some or all windows at the factory or later after the aircraft were in service but what do you think, should manufacturers opt to - should they print or not to print plugged (blanked out) windows?

Opinions needed

[eugenevh]

Wow, that is an interesting and very tricky question there MSX :-)

I am in two minds about it.

Let me first start out with this statement. I wish that all manufacturers makes the models as accurate a representation as possible to the real thing.

But, almost in the same breath, IF a model is released and it is the ONLY one available at that time of a particular livery, then, even though there might be faults, I will still buy it. (Might one day be displayed at the back of the cabinet to 'hide' the mistakes.)

I do know there are collectors out there (and I accept it is their right) who choose to skip over models with faults waiting for when the absolutely correct model becomes available. What if that model never appears then? I don't want to purchase a perfect model just before I peg I also wonder how many models there are out there which is absolutely 'Perfect'. It would be good to know in any case and hence I thank you MSX for being there to point out these issues.

Bottom line then is I buy the currently available one and when a better one becomes available, then I can use the current one for 'nefarious' purposes
It is a tough question though.

With that being said, back to your original post:
1) If the model is intended to reflect the delivery scheme then it should appear as it was when delivered to the airline. - If windows were plugged, it should be plugged on the tampo/decals too.
2) If the model is intended to reflect a later date in time after modifications (plugged windows, added cargo door, etc) were added, then that should be reflected accurately on the model.

Other thoughts or comments?

[FireAngelZero]

I like my models to be as 100% close to real as they can be and honestly, if the windows are plugged on the real jet then I feel like they should be in models... Ex. Martinair Cargo has a few MD-11's that have both windows and a cargo door. If I purchased a Martinair Cargo MD-11 with the registration of a jet with both windows and a cargo door I'd like for those details to be there... What I see is what I get.

[MSX]

The only problem here is that manufacturers can either print the plugged without with standard silver windows frames or not to print them at all and leave the space blank. This question is not that simple indeed! Let's suppose that manufacturer uses standard frames to imitate plugged windows - so standard windows would be usual black/grey inside but and plugged windows would be "transparent", silver frame for both sorts of windows is the same, now let's apply this situation to some liveries, let's take an old KLM color scheme with dark blue almost black stripe across the fuselage and the windows row. Note invisible plugged windows - 1st window and 12 windows between first and second doors:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/KLM-A...663b46eda65622

Now let's think about this variant. If manufacturer would print the frames for the plugged windows here even if they would be transparent they would be dark (dark blue) inside and from away they would look identical to all standard windows with black inside, wouldn't it look inccorrectly then? Apparently that's why BigBird400 (AeroClassics) decided not to print them on their KLM models:

http://www.diecastaircraftphotos.com...ail-17650.html

Herpa Premium too decided not to use standard windows frames for plugged windows in their KLM model (see 2nd picture):

http://www.diecastaircraftphotos.com...tail-6198.html

Phoenix however decided to print plugged windows with standard silver frames and here is the result:

http://www.diecastaircraftphotos.com...ail-23037.html

http://www.airlinersdiecast.com/galleries/klm/P1110863.JPG

The same Herpa Premium, however, prints standard windows frames to imitate plugged windows in their all white Lufthansa model (see 2nd picture - first two windows, 6 windows after the 2nd door and 3 upper deck windows)

http://www.diecastaircraftphotos.com...tail-6213.html

[eugenevh]

Ok, I see what you mean. (I've never really gone into so much detail myself, but you do make a very good point). I guess you can say I was 'blissfully unaware" or - "ignorance is bliss".

The first picture of the KLM was taken from a fairly large distance, but even if I Zoom in on that, the plugged window frames are not visible.

That makes the Aeroclassics one in that regard closer to the real deal.
The phoenix looks like it is standard windows as you say. (A side note, that second picture of the Phoenix model had me going for a while. Until you zoom in and see the tail seems to be one piece. It looks almost like a real aircraft).

On the Lufthansa one with a light background it might look closer to the truth though?

So it will depend on the liveries involved then.

To print or not to print. That is the question.

MSX, a question I have for you. Besides you then, who will know the mistakes, on these models, who else would notice? I don't mean we should just sit back and just buy whatever the manufacturers sends our way (although I am guilty of that - but I have my reasons too). We should indeed encourage them to go as closely to the real deal as possible. Another question as well. Do they really listen? It seems JC Wings are making efforts to improve their products, but whenever a 'mistake' on Aeroclassics for instance is pointed out, then a certain person involved goes ballistic and the problem is not addressed. How DO we get manufacturers to listen then?

Also, in practice, when I display my models, the people who look at them (family and friends) don't have the foggiest clue what type of aircraft it represents, just that it is SAA with 4 engines for instance. It is a conundrum isn't it?

[MSX]

Besides you then, who will know the mistakes, on these models, who else would notice? I don't mean we should just sit back and just buy whatever the manufacturers sends our way (although I am guilty of that - but I have my reasons too). We should indeed encourage them to go as closely to the real deal as possible.

Eugene, besides me there are really many many collectors out there who are noticing imperfections, especially now during hard crisis times when many collectors selling their big and spacious houses and moving to smaller ones with less space for their 1:200 models so this category is moving to smaller therefore less space demanding and more economy 1:400 scale and they don't wish sacrifice detalization (at least in printing) and this is a very good impulse for 1:400 by the way, another new wave is smart younger collectors who want the maximum of realizm for their hard earned cash, and after all we collectors shouldn't forget we are in 2013!

Another question as well. Do they really listen? It seems JC Wings are making efforts to improve their products, but whenever a 'mistake' on Aeroclassics for instance is pointed out, then a certain person involved goes ballistic and the problem is not addressed. How DO we get manufacturers to listen then?

They do Eugene, some manufacturers do listen very carefully. The most recent example is new Phoenix A320 mold cockpit windows, if you look at the very first models they came with incorrect windows but after our suggestions they revised their cockpit windows and their recent A320 releases already have new revised and accurate cockpit windows! As well as baggage doors, exit arrows on wings and some other minor details were revised on their new A320, lots of improved details on Tupolevs Tu-154 too, the newest Korean Tu-154 must have new and completely revised cockpit windows as we suggested, waiting now for the first photos of it to see the result!